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LEX: Useful Little Words (COPIED FROM THE FACTORY)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:39 pm
by Miatato
7 April 2010 -- I copied this thread from the other board (The Factory) as a reference, since so many wonderful words are being made and used here.

This is a first attempt at a vocabulary unit proposal thread. Please feel to suggest additional things I've missed and to throw in all your ideas about these things. If you really hate something, suggest an alternative, and we'll let them duke it out in use. I know some of these have had some use, so there are some suggestions floating around out there already.

I/me/my/mine/myself
you/your/yours/yourself (singular)
he/she/it/his/hers/its/himself/herself/itself (sex-specific or one epicene pronoun? Or both?)
we/us/our/ours/ourselves (inclusive and exclusive?)
you/your/yours/yourselves (plural)
they/them/their/theirs/themselves (if singular forms are sex-specific, are the plural forms also?)

If you'd like to argue in favor of not having any personal pronouns at all, bring it on! :D

this
these
that
those
(Include and explain distinctions. For instance, Nevashi has a 4-way distinction based on where the thing being spoken about is relative to the speaker and the addressee. For all we know, our language may distinguish between "this, IRL" and "this, on the Net".)

a, an
the

and
or
but
(Just a personal note: I rather liked the idea of having a simultaneous-and and a sequential-and... simultaneously.)

after
before
unless
although
if
until
as
since
when
because
than
while

There's not a lot of content in this group, but I wanted to throw this out there for people to think about. If someone else wants to post another thread that includes more content words (verbs of motion, common transitive verbs, animals, flavors of ice cream, whatever), that would be great.

I will be submitting my own proposals for this and other things before the end of the weekend. I am in a conlanging mood.

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:00 am
by kadani
Being slightly feminist, I tend towards not discriminating between a male and female forms.

Here is what we have already:

ji: I
you: zai
dau: s/he


My proposed additions:

jizai: we (inclusive)
jime: we (exclusive)
zaime: you (plural*)
daume: they

For the demonstrative pronouns 'this', 'that', I would propose a three way contrast like Latin supposedly had:

kena: this, near the speaker
kexu: this, near the person it is addressed to
kea: this, near both.

This would conveniently mean that things on the web are addressed via kea: kea kaida: this forum. (Unless for example one of us is behind the great firewall of china and it blocks the site, then this person would use kexu kaida and others kena kaida)

Articles ... I have not seen them so far in our translation. Rejistanian uses jilih (this/that/there) if it wants to specify a specific thing, Jasabagé'a uses prefixes, Danish suffixes. I suggest to move that issue to the grammar thread :arrow:

I also like the idea of a sequential and a simultaneous and.

ila: and (as in "waking up and eating breakfast" or "drinking and driving")
tei: and (as in "sandwish with ham and cheese")
iva: or
juvu: xor (exclusive or, as in "make assignment 2 or 3 (but not both)")

More later.

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:44 am
by Uh-Oh
kadani wrote:Being slightly feminist, I tend towards not discriminating between a male and female forms.


I agree, and I agree with almost all the rest of Kadani's proposals. Do we have a place to store a growing lexicon more permanently than in discussion threads?
Here is what we have already:


kadani wrote:kea: this, near both.

Not one for "far from both"?

In Qakwan I made the demonstratives do double or triple duty:

    lei = "that one" or "that" (near the listener); also to indicate that what follows is old information to the listener (similar to "the").
    alei = "this one" or "this" (near the speaker); also to indicate that the speaker already knows about this but it's new information for the listener (similar to "a / an").
    ulei = "yonder one" or "yonder"; also "a" or "an" to indicate that this is new information for both the speaker and the listener (similar to "any"), or as a forward reference to something that's not been identified yet ("The point of my argument is this:")

These three can also be used to distinguish between the first, second, and third things (respectively) brought into a discussion.

My overall point being that having a three-way distinction seems to be handy spatially, temporally, and referentially.

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:09 pm
by kadani
Uh-Oh wrote:
kadani wrote:Being slightly feminist, I tend towards not discriminating between a male and female forms.


I agree, and I agree with almost all the rest of Kadani's proposals. Do we have a place to store a growing lexicon more permanently than in discussion threads?

As soon as we have a name for the language, I will create a gist for it.
Uh-Oh wrote:Here is what we have already:


kadani wrote:kea: this, near both.

Not one for "far from both"?

In Qakwan I made the demonstratives do double or triple duty:

    lei = "that one" or "that" (near the listener); also to indicate that what follows is old information to the listener (similar to "the").
    alei = "this one" or "this" (near the speaker); also to indicate that the speaker already knows about this but it's new information for the listener (similar to "a / an").
    ulei = "yonder one" or "yonder"; also "a" or "an" to indicate that this is new information for both the speaker and the listener (similar to "any"), or as a forward reference to something that's not been identified yet ("The point of my argument is this:")

These three can also be used to distinguish between the first, second, and third things (respectively) brought into a discussion.

My overall point being that having a three-way distinction seems to be handy spatially, temporally, and referentially.

We can also add a fourth one for far from both, I would suggest kelin for that.

For the rest... I guess a pattern of usage will develop through usage. I do not want to invalidate too much already.

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:04 pm
by Miatato
Regarding the question of where we can store the growing lexicon, I can host the files on this conlang.org webspace. I can put together a repository page where people can go to find them. Putting together the files, uploading them, and making them available are now items on my to-do list.

In fact, I am going to start compiling something right now.

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:06 pm
by kadani
What are you going to use?

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:58 pm
by Miatato
I am compiling the list in Google Docs for now, but I can put it out there in multiple formats.

Re: LEX: Useful Little Words (COPIED FROM THE FACTORY)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:46 pm
by Miatato
The original of this thread has been moved to "A Word For Everything".