Calligraphy

Writing systems, visual arts, and other cultural bits

Re: Calligraphy

Postby Matthew Turnbull » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:33 am

OK, this is a bit of a radical suggestion, but I think what we should do with the orthography is the following.

**the voicing of the consonant is indicated by the "vowel"**

so with the current phonology of
p b t d k g there are seven voiced pairs and we could throw n and l and m and ng together. So we would have
f v s z x j nine consonant letters and 5*2 = ten vowel letters. We could throw in two cancellation vowels for indicating
m n ng voice on final consonants, or we could do synharmonic deletion, which would keep us with only 19 letters.
tx dj we would need an empty consonant for initial vowels and vowels by themselves.
l
so if we represent these with normal vowels i e a o u and "voiced" vowels í é á ó ú.
We might romanize this like so [baloʒ] - pánójó

To avoid the weirdness of the romanization I'm going to tentatively assign values to the letter forms from David.

Image
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Dedalvs » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:02 am

Wow. That certainly is a wild idea! I think it can work (with synharmony, there wouldn't be a way to do that automatically; those using the font would simply have to remember to do it--and we'd also need a synharmonic cancellation mark), but it might be too user-unfriendly. Even if we don't use that idea, though, hang onto it! An idea that wild deserves to be implemented somewhere.

(Oh, and note: I believe the romanized form of [baloʒ] should be pánóxó, no?)
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Matthew Turnbull » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:57 am

Dedalvs wrote:-snip-
with synharmony, there wouldn't be a way to do that automatically
-snip-
(Oh, and note: I believe the romanized form of [baloʒ] should be pánóxó, no?)


there wouldn't be any way to do it automaticaly, but then again there's no way to automatically add the magic e at the end of english words, but people do it without too much trouble. I agree the system is not 100% user friendly though, but I do like it, ultimatly it depends on what everyone thinks.

and yes, it should be pánóxó, not sure what I was up to there. And [baloʃ] would be <pánóxo>
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby kadani » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:18 am

I see a big issue with this. Can we please use very different symbols for t/d and p/b? If we use 2 in the chart, please not the mirrored one. I am a bit lysdexic when it comes to mirrored characters. :oops: I recommend the use of 31 for p/b. Also, I would prefer if we used 19 for n/l. Otherwise the characters are foo alike for my taste.

We could make all consonants dot free and use the dotted versions as the versions with cancellation marks... but I am going to be killed for that idea, I guess. :D
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Dedalvs » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:50 pm

kadani wrote:We could make all consonants dot free and use the dotted versions as the versions with cancellation marks... but I am going to be killed for that idea, I guess. :D


That'd be fine, but we actually don't need cancellation marks unless we're proceeding with the dotted voiced/voiceless distinction. If we were just going with different voiced/voiceless consonants and had all the vowels represented, then a consonant without a vowel would simply be that: a consonant without a vowel. There'd be no need for a cancellation mark. We would need more characters to fill out the voiced versions, though.

For synharmony, we'd need to do something like this:

Form: satal
Orthographic: satala
Typed: s+a+t+a+l+a

(Note: We wouldn't have to type "n"; I'd have the font take care of that automatically.)

Form: satala
Orthographic: satala
Typed: s+a+t+a+l+a+?

So here we would need a mystery mark of some kind--some phantom keystroke that would tell the font to use the form that cancels synharmonic deletion. We can make it either a single mark, or a duplicate vowel (so s+a+t+a+l+a+a), but it'd be something the font user would need to remember.

Regarding this one, if you can kind of describe more forms, I can always make more forms to choose from. I just kind of ran out of ideas.
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Matthew Turnbull » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:23 pm

I have no problem with using different characters than the ones I proposed, I just picked them quickly, to demonstrate the system.

I like the dotted consonant being the vowel-cancelled version, and generally think we could make the cancelled version be shift+key.
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby kadani » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:00 am

So:

Form: satal
Orthographic: satala
Typed: s+a+t+a+l+a

Form: satala
Orthographic: satala
Typed: s+a+t+a+l+A

You mean like this? :shock:
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Matthew Turnbull » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:13 pm

kadani wrote:So:

Form: satal
Orthographic: satala
Typed: s+a+t+a+l+a

Form: satala
Orthographic: satala
Typed: s+a+t+a+l+A

You mean like this? :shock:


More like this

/satal/ <satala> = satala
/satala/ <satal(cancel)a> = sataLa
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Matthew Turnbull » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:09 pm

David, did you say you had made a font for the curvy script, or did you say you would make a font? If you did could you put it up online somewhere?
ave matyu at vijeréiisoblarre ayna
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Re: Calligraphy

Postby Dedalvs » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:15 pm

Matthew Turnbull wrote:David, did you say you had made a font for the curvy script, or did you say you would make a font? If you did could you put it up online somewhere?


It is a font, yes, but it's not a workable font: the forms don't combine, and the glyphs are assigned to random places. Do you still want it?

Personally, I'm thinking the synharmony may be more trouble than it's worth, but I'll go with the majority.
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